18 Feb ’12
I don't understand why business people try to structure their payments. How much paperwork is involved in a large deposit? Is it terribly inconvenient? I'm a bit ignorant of the whole process, but wouldn't following the rules put you on the bank's radar as a LEGIT business and maybe avoid the hassle? I have to assume that after the bookkeeper niece was warned (per the article) that someone from the bank made a phone call that the pattern was continuuing.
I've made large withdrawls for a house and car purchases and the bank manager came out, took me back to his office, and personally processed the cashier's check transactions. It took about 10 minutes, which was longer than a window transaction, but really no big deal.
19 Feb ’12
ashleigh11 said
I don't understand why business people try to structure their payments. How much paperwork is involved in a large deposit? Is it terribly inconvenient? I'm a bit ignorant of the whole process, but wouldn't following the rules put you on the bank's radar as a LEGIT business and maybe avoid the hassle? I have to assume that after the bookkeeper niece was warned (per the article) that someone from the bank made a phone call that the pattern was continuuing.I've made large withdrawls for a house and car purchases and the bank manager came out, took me back to his office, and personally processed the cashier's check transactions. It took about 10 minutes, which was longer than a window transaction, but really no big deal.
I'm betting that it's not that burdensome. At best, he's just concerned about too much government oversight, and at worst he's doing something a little shady.
And this has NOTHING to do with withdrawals, and all with deposits.
And KVR, I realize that this isn't laundering. I was more thinking about the laws where they decide which businesses are "legit" and which aren't. But it seems like the more government meddles in business to make sure everyone is legit and legal it forces people who are normally doing legit business, to change the "appearance" of the business so it becomes more bank/government friendly.
maybe things will change
A veteran of three combat tours in Iraq, local gun shop owner Andrew Clyde has chosen a new battle — advocating for change in federal asset forfeiture laws.
Clyde, a U.S. Navy veteran and owner of Clyde Armory in Athens, began a public phase of his campaign with his Wednesday testimony in front of the oversight subcommittee of the U.S. House Ways and Means Committee, where he recounted the Internal Revenue Service seizure of nearly $950,000 taken in at his business.
Clyde’s story began as the 2012 presidential campaign, and the eventual re-election of President Barack Obama, dominated the headlines. Clyde Armory in Athens, like other gun shops across the country, saw a spike in business as people concerned about the future of the Second Amendment stocked up on guns and ammunition.
At Clyde Armory, much of that spike in business was conducted in cash, and that cash was being deposited regularly in the business’ bank account. Those deposits were always less than $10,000, Clyde said, because his business insurance policy only covered off-premises losses up to $10,000.
Unfortunately for Clyde, that limit also attracted the attention of federal authorities, as a result of the 1982 federal Bank Secrecy Act and subsequent federal regulation.
Aimed at ferreting out potential drug transactions, the Bank Secrecy Act requires banks to report transactions in excess of $10,000 to federal authorities.
As word of this limit spread, and people began working around it, Congress enacted a 1986 law making it illegal to structure transactions to avoid triggering the Bank Secrecy Act.
In 2000, Congress again addressed asset seizure in the Civil Asset Reform Act, but even that wasn’t sufficient to keep Clyde’s bank deposits from attracting federal notice. He was accused of “structuring” — a willful attempt to arrange his bank deposits to keep them under the $10,000 threshold.
In April of 2013, the Internal Revenue Service seized the nearly $950,000 in the gun shop’s bank account under terms of asset seizure law that allow such seizures on the basis that the funds could be tied to criminal activity, even when there is no evidence of such activity.
The case wound up in federal court, and after legal fees and the eventual surrender of $50,000 to the IRS to bring the matter to an end, nearly $150,000 had been carved out of the $950,000 seizure.
“I did not serve three combat tours in Iraq only to come home and be extorted,” Clyde told the subcommittee on Wednesday, calling his decision to forfeit $50,000 to the IRS “a tactical retreat.”
Clyde was joined at the hearing by two other business people — Randy Sowers, a Maryland creamery owner, and Jeff Hirsch, a New York tobacco and candy distributor — who also lost thousands of dollars for allegedly “structuring” deposits.
In an interview Thursday, Clyde said that advocating for changes in asset forfeiture law “is going to be my lifetime crusade.”
At Wednesday’s hearing, IRS Commissioner John Koskinen told subcommittee members that since October the agency has been seizing assets only after finding “probable cause” that bank depositors are engaging in actual criminal activity beyond any alleged “structuring” of deposits.
That change doesn’t satisfy Clyde, who noted Thursday that whatever IRS policy might be, the problematic asset forfeiture statutes remain on the books.
Rep. Doug Collins, R-Ga., a local congressman who has been working with Clyde in conjunction with the asset forfeiture issue, said Thursday that the bipartisan incredulity expressed at Wednesday’s subcommittee hearing — Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said “it is wrong to, without any criminal evidence, seize somebody’s property” — is an indication that Congress could act soon to change asset forfeiture laws.
“Sometimes, it takes a shocking case” like Clyde’s to spur bipartisan congressional action, Collins said, because it so clearly “goes against the very premise” of this country’s principles.
For his part, Clyde had high praise Thursday for former U.S. Rep. Paul Broun, to whom he first brought his concerns, and for Collins and Rep. Jody Hice, another Republican area congressman, for their support in his effort to change asset forfeiture laws.
“It’s not just me,” Clyde said. But, he added, “I get to be the point of the spear.”
looks like he is getting his money back
More than a month after dismissing a case involving a Fairmont, N.C., convenience store owner, the federal government returned the more than $100,000 it took from him last year.
But the government still refuses to pay the lawyers’ fees and expenses that the store owner is entitled to.
According to documents filed in federal court this week, the government returned the $107,702.66 it seized from L&M Convenience Mart owner Lyndon McLellan, depositing the money into the store’s bank account on June 29.
“Actions speak louder than words,” Robert Johnson, a lawyer at the Institute for Justice who represented McLellan, wrote in the filings. “At the same time that the government has continued to slander Lyndon as a criminal in its filings in this court, the government has returned the money that it seized from Lyndon’s business.”
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