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Interesting interview with Cody

Survival Entertainment, Friend or Foe? An exclusive interview with Cody Lundin

An opportunity recently presented itself to ask Dual Survival’s Cody Lundin for a formal interview of which he graciously accepted. Lundin is a professional survival instructor with over 25 years of experience. He has also worked within the television industry since the 1990’s both behind and in front of the camera. I hoped to learn more about Survival TV from his perspective, or as he later coined it, Survival Entertainment. I expected Cody to be honest; he always is, sometimes brutally.

NOBLE:  May 28th, 2014, USA Today published an article, Survival TV strips down, takes off. In that article, Discovery Network president Eileen O’Neill talked about their survival programming after the 2007 Bear Grylls (Man vs. Wild) hotel scandal, “The importance of authenticity is key for Discovery Channel,” since then, “the shows we’ve delivered are grounded in that.”

As a very recent host of Dual Survivor, would you agree with these statements from Discovery?

LUNDIN:  Whether something is authentic or not can only be known by someone who has experience in that something. Ms. O’Neill is a corporate executive, not an outdoor survival instructor. Therefore, she has zero credibility in defining this profession or anyone else’s profession as being portrayed as authentic or not. Using the world authentic for a network that is pursuing more and more scripted reality shows is a bold statement.

NOBLE:  You were the first one chosen to host Dual Survivor is that right?

LUNDIN:  Yes, that’s right. Keep in mind that the show is called Dual Survival. For some reason, Discovery is not aware of their shows correct name.

NOBLE:  Wow, ok…

LUNDIN:  But anyway, yes, they chose me first and then went on to find my partner for the show. This resulted in three chemistry tests overall before my first co-host was chosen. After the network eliminated Dave, I did two more chemistry tests to find my new co-host who was a Navy SEAL. He blew the deal with the network and so the production company did one more chemistry test to find Joe. All in all, I tested with more than twenty military guys, twenty-four or twenty-five I think.

NOBLE:  You mean Joe wasn’t the first choice to be your new co-host?

LUNDIN:  No he wasn’t.

NOBLE:  I want to talk more about Dual Survival, but I know the focus of this interview, and why you agreed to do it at all was to address what you see as a growing problem with survival skills in the media, in how they’re being presented. I notice you use the term “Survival Entertainment.” What does this mean to you?

LUNDIN:  It’s my hope that through this interview people gain a greater understanding of the mythical power of media, how to crack its code of illusion, and to recognize the true qualities of a professional survival skills instructor. I use the term survival entertainment because unfortunately, that is how the profession of survival skills is being treated by the media, like a big game. Survival deals with whether people live or die, as the word implies. This dumbing down is happening not only on TV, but in movies, books, magazines, blogs, etc. I’m concerned that the public is being dangerously misled to believe that survival entertainment actors are qualified to teach survival skills. Misunderstanding entertainment for training and celebrity for credentials can and has gotten people killed.

NOBLE:  Are you saying that the majority of TV survival shows don’t showcase professional survival instructors?

LUNDIN:  Of course I am, haven’t you noticed? (laughs) It is painfully obvious to me and my peers. A professional mechanic can always spot a beginner mechanic or hobbyist or someone who is faking something for the camera. Any professional from any field can spot this. Experience, or the lack of it, can’t be faked. Unfortunately, in my industry, most people have no idea what a survival instructor really does, or should do, and there are several branches of survival training, just like there are several branches of the medical profession.

NOBLE:  What do you mean by that?

LUNDIN:  Remember when someone told you they were a doctor and that was enough? Now, it’s “what kind of doctor are you?” There are oodles of physicians in the yellow pages for my little town. There are foot doctors, eye doctors, skin doctors, heart doctors, lung doctors, bone doctors, allergy doctors, doctors for kids, doctors for older people, doctors for female issues, doctors for male issues, blah, blah, blah! While not as diversified, the survival profession is the same way. Modern survival is different from primitive living skills, which is different from urban preparedness, which is different from homesteading, which is different from wilderness living or “bushcrafting.” They all revolve around various aspects of self-reliance, just like all of the different doctors revolve around dealing with the human body. But one does not go to a foot doctor to remove a cataract. Even many survival instructors are unaware of the differences, and the media, not knowing the difference either, puts out whatever they think is valid. One of the biggest problems I see, even among the majority of survival instructors, is context. It is one thing to know a survival skill, it is quite another to recognize the correct context into how that skill should be implemented in an emergency scenario. This is critical if people want to live. The best way to have greater control of the context, into how to use hard and soft skills to defeat a survival situation, is through years of field experience and training. Many people have survived situations despite themselves, despite the mistakes they made, and fate, luck, karma, whatever you want to call it does play its role in whether people live or die. But training with skills in the proper context of the supposed emergency is always the best training option. Training intentions are very important when dealing with a professional in which people live or die based upon that training. How could it be any other way, right? A paramedic is trained in both how to maintain a patent airway and treat a lower extremity wound. Both are valid skills to know in emergency medicine. However, if the medic treats the nasty looking leg wound first, at the expense of gaining or maintaining a patent airway, their patient will die. The first-aid skills, although both valid in their own right, were done in the wrong order. The context was screwed up for the scenario and the patient dies. This lack of context is a huge problem not just on TV, but in all media regarding survival skills, including so called survival magazines. The author, producer, TV host or whoever, simply does not have the field experience to be able to put into context the survival skills they think they are teaching. This is true of many survival instructors too. And if survival instructors are unaware of the proper context in skills training and methodology, how in the hell do you expect a corporate executive to get it, or even care?

NOBLE:  You stress that wrong context is a major issue in survival training, even with other survival skills professionals. Did you see context problems with Dual Survival, and if so, did you try to do anything to change it? Also, do you see a context problem with other survival programming?

LUNDIN:  Dual Survival is a TV show based upon a modern outdoor survival scenario. It has the statistical three day or seventy two hour time line and has the hosts either self-rescuing, which is very rare, or being rescued by a third party. Sometimes this rescue comes in the form of trained Search and Rescue, such as the Florida episode in season two, or sometimes it was someone else, a rancher, or whatever. I helped develop the shows modern survival format, and worked with the original executive producers to help wrap their heads around this basic concept. You must remember that everyone I’m working with had no experience in outdoor survival, even from a TV production standpoint, much less from a personal or professional standpoint. The time line of three days was more of a budget thing than anything else, but it was valid nonetheless. I had one hand on the steering wheel and one foot on the brake the entire time I hosted and helped produce Dual Survival. I did this as I was the only one who had decades of back country experience actually doing these skills in the proper context with students, and who was aware of the difference between modern survival, primitive living, and urban preparedness, etc. Most other parties had their foot on the gas. Producers would come to me to run by their story lines for each episode and I would shoot down what had no context, or what was questionable for the scenario given. They learned early on not to ask me to do dumb stuff, things that were blatantly dangerous to the viewer as I would simply refuse. Whether my co-hosts decided to do these things was up to them. I was a professional survival instructor first, who had trained hundreds of people over the years on real field courses. I was a TV host a distant second. My first and main concern on Dual Survival was the viewer’s safety, not attempting to look like a bad ass. What not many people realize is Dual Survival was created in part to help make things right after the Man vs. Wild fiasco. In the early days of Dual Survival, the executives wanted as much realism as possible, with of course the entertainment value that must come from a TV show of this type. Most of the time, they would listen to me and I would help them shape the context of the show with real world experience. I have no idea what they did with my advice as I have never watched the show, but I did my part, and I did it with an iron fist of very little compromise. Why? Because people’s lives were on the line, my professional reputation was on the line. Not surprisingly, in season two, Dual Survival reruns were beating new Man vs. Wild shows in the ratings. When given the chance, the viewing public chose learning and caution over reckless drama.

the rest can be read here

http://masterwoodsma.....dy-lundin/