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3 Jun ’12
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My biggest concern is how much space is reasonable for 4 llamas. I want happy llamas, I don't want em all crowded and and crazy and depressed and weird.
I have read from several sources that 1 acre can support 3-4. But it always seems in reference to grazing, not just runnin around space. I will be feeding grass hay- I don't want to get into the hay farming business or pasture management. At least not yet. So my question is what would be a humane amount of space for them to live in? I have an area that is slightly less then one acre where I plan to fence and build the barn/catch pen/storage/tack room..... Ask if he thinks that's enough room?
Also ask him how they do with Pine trees. I will have to clear some trees for the project, but I was thinking that leaving some inside the fence would be good for them. Give them things to interact with instead of just a giant open space, provide shade, and provide obstacles for training purposes. But Im wondering if they will just ring the bark off of the trees and kill them?
How is he handling watering in sub freezing months? I don't have electricity down there- I looked into solar powered tank heaters but its not realistic, at least not from what I can tell.
Has he had issues with depredation? Grizz and wolf are around but don't come too near where I am. But we have black bears, fox, coyote. I read that bears don't really like llamas, try to avoid them (one more on the plus column for camping with llamas). I know a llama will stomp the heck out of a single coyote, but I'd be a little concerned about a pack of canines getting after them. And Cats...We have BIG scary cats, I find their kills when hiking. A couple years ago, about 10 miles from me, a lion went on a llama killing spree. Killed several, on a few different ranches, before he was put away. But the Wildlife Officers said it was really rare. I'd be interested in his take on that.
And of course any random tid bits he thinks a new llama owner should know would be very welcome.
Thanks man. If I think of any other questions tonite I'll post them.
15 Feb ’12
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will have your answers tomorrow afternoon
3 Jun ’12
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You rock
3 Jun ’12
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So, I went to meet the fella yesterday. It was a cool experience! He answered a lot of my questions about space requirements and a million others too. He seemed to appreciate that I had done a lot of homework. Over all we hit it off pretty well. He got into the llama thing for the same reason I did, to pack game.
Here are a couple pics of the four that will be coming to live with me in a few months!
The 2 brown ones are sisters, a couple years apart. They are super mellow, easy to catch and harness up. You don't even notice they are behind you when you lead them. And one of em was leaning into me like a big dog when I was scratching her neck. They are going to be very easy to work with. They have been saddled a few times for packing and string well (I am told).
The white one with the dark brown face was a little wary of me at first. Led well for the most part. Didn't want to be petted/scratched, but I got her to a point where she was cool with me reaching out and touching her, so its a start. I'm told that you have to build up trust with them, and you could see it with her. She has been saddled but needs work.
The other white one is the youngest, 4, and is still learning. She was a bit of a hassle putting the halter on and has never been saddled, so she will be the most work out of the four in the beginning. She has also been worked with the least because she is hard to work with right now and he has a bunch he is trying to get squared away. He admitted she fell thru the cracks a bit because he could work with her, or three others, in the same mount of time. I will have more time to spend with her so I am optimistic.
So the plan now is to start going out to his property regularly to start working with "my" llamas under his supervision, while I get my facilities built up.
Going to be an adventure, for sure. But it has begun!
*I am a luddite! I was just happy I figured out how to attach a photo, no idea how to orient it correctly.
15 Feb ’12
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awesome, just got back from my buddies, was tied up yesterday and didn't get a chance to get out there till today, will post most of what I remember and I have a few gifts for you, waiting for the pics to upload
15 Feb ’12
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alright, so first we got sidetracked on his bean project, he has been growing and selling them in volume over the last couple years
this is his sorting rack which is pretty cool
anyways, He started about a decade ago with 2 males and 2 females. He was up to 35 at one point but they have cut back to 20, 4 males and 16 females. Oh and they are llamas not alpacas, some reason I got mixed up over the years, but he raises llamas
like I posted earlier, he keeps the boys separate, a 6 foot fence is preferred
actually 2 of them are castrated, but since they are all half brothers and have grown up together he keeps them as a unit, so he only studs two of them, this is his main stud, he is a beautiful animal in person
His girls, this is his main one, she was a sweetheart
they all wanted to get into the picture
okay so here is some general information and some specific questions you had, I am probably going to forget some but I will write about it later if I remeber
llamas first hit it big in the US in the 70's when an animal would cost 2500
in the 90's alpacas hit the scene and they were fetching 25,000 apiece
alpaca is half the size with double the amount of wool, but you still won't make the amount of money off an alpaca as you will a llama. They are more finicky, have more health issues and have dietary requirements.
His llamas have never had a health issue outside of one that got cancer and had to be put down
The market is really soft right now, those 2500 llamas from just a few years ago are now 4-500 here locally. Not sure what you paid for yours, but I showed him the pictures and said they were good looking animals and it's good they are halter trained. Show's a breeder that cares for their animals and spends time with them.
He said 3 per acre is fine, if the grass is good, that will feed them all summer long.
When they first started they tilled the whole field and planted good quality grass and they have never had to do a thing since. The llamas take care of themselves.
Winter time, figure one bale of hay per animal a week. That's it, llamas are one of the most efficient with processing food. In their native Peru there is very little greenery at their elevation, so they have to be.
I asked about supplementing them with grain, he said his first ones he bought were grain fed when he got them. He took a class from someone that is very knowledgeable on llamas. The guy asked the class who was feeding their animals grain. Several raised their hands including my friend. The instructor said stop, you are doing nothing but harm to your animals, there is no blue seal 10,000 feet up in the Andes and these animals have evolved over 1000's of years of eating minimal amount of grass and shrubbery.
To be continued
15 Feb ’12
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I asked about predators, he said as far as coyotes, wolves or mountain lions they will hold their own. The puma is the natural enemy of the llama and they are use to them in the wild. Bears he is not sure of. He did have one incident though where he had a new calve in the field with the female herd, something came out of the woods, he wasn't sure what it was, but all the girls put the baby in the middle of a circle and they all started stomping and screaming in the direction of the intruder. He hasn't seen it since.
Making money off them, wool is where it is at. They shear in april, clean the wool and then knit it into hat's, mittens scarves for one big fair in the fall
the fair pays them $2500 just to show up, then they make another 3000 or more through sales on the weekend. He has learned some lessons with this, one, don't make child sized mittens, people don't buy them, they will pay top dollar for adult items, but not kids.
All of that above is not dyed, it's all natural colors from his herd.
I told him about your background, and he thinks you offering a pack service would be a great way to make money off them. He has seen other breeders out west that will take a herd out into the back country for a week and the llamas don't destroy the trails because they are soft padded and not hooved like a horse and they are sustainable with grazing on shrubbery along the trail versus the horses needing feed packed in with them.
I know there is more but that's all I can remember right now. He also gave me some of his yarn to send to you, so shoot me a pm. He said if you have any questions at all to call him, his phone is always open and he has some publications that you can have if you want.
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